The Real Facts About Rick Warren’s Ties to Robert Schuller

From the blog site of Extreme Theology
I just got done reading part one of Rick Warren’s interview with World Net Daily and if I didn’t laugh I would have cried.
There is one constant that I’ve learned in researching Rick Warren, HE’S A MASTER AT TWISTING THE TRUTH. Whether it is a passage of scripture that Warren twists to support his Purpose-Driven gospel or his claim to being Rupert Murdoch’s Pastor but not really meaning that he was “actually Murdoch’s Pastor”, Rick Warren is the king of the modern sophists. His latest twist is a REAL DOOOSIE and it is well worth reviewing the facts.
In the WND interview Warren tries to distance himself from the claim that he has been ‘mentored’ by Robert Schuller.
Here is what Warren told WND:
Quote 1
"Without a doubt," he told WND. "I make mistakes all the time." But he added, "I always own up to mistakes that I actually do. I just won't own up to mistakes that weren't really a mistake."
Many false claims, he contended, have taken on a life of their own on Internet blogs, such as assertions he was mentored by positive-thinking pastor Robert Schuller and influenced by Norman Vincent Peale. The claims often are tied to criticism he's preaching a watered-down, pop-psychology gospel of self-esteem and "easy believism."
"I've only met Robert Schuller twice, I believe. I've never had a one-on-one conversation with him. Not once. So how do I even know him?". (Online Source)
Quote 2
The Robert Schuller "mentorship," for example, likely originated with a statement the Crystal Cathedral pastor made on CNN's "Larry King Live." But Warren said he's met Schuller only a couple of times and never had a one-on-one conversation with him.
The claim was furthered by author George Mair in a biography of Warren called "A Life with Purpose" then spread like wildfire among Internet blogs.
"In the first place, this guy is not even a Christian, never talked to me, never talked to any staff member, never talked to any member of my family, and in the book claimed that he did," Warren said. "He flat-out lied."
Warren pointed out Mair is also the author of celebrity tomes such as "Paris Hilton: The Naked Truth" and "Oprah Winfrey: The Real Story."
"What he does is he finds, quote, celebrities, and churns out a quick book," Warren said.The book was rife with errors from secondary sources, including the wrong number of children and wrong hometown, Warren pointed out.
"A lot of Christians then took and read that stuff, reported it on a blog, blogs copy blogs copy blogs copy blogs. And it's kind of like spreading a feather pillow, you can't get all the feathers back."Warren said he has discussed with Billy Graham how to handle criticism.
"The general policy is, as much as possible, you don't respond," he said. "And so, I have to live with a lot of misconceptions about the thing with Schuller." (Online Source)
From what Warren told WND we are being led to believe that...
1. The claims that Rick Warren preaches a pop-psych, self-esteem gospel of easy believism are falsely linked to an alleged association between Warren and Schuller that has been grossly overstated by smear authors and bloggers.
2. Warren wasn’t really mentored by Robert Schuller because he’s only met him twice.
3. Therefore, Warren’s message and methods, contrary to what his critics say, have not been substantially influenced by Robert Schuller.
Okay let’s review some facts here.I am publicly on record as one of "those bloggers" who have linked Warren to Shuller. You can read what I’ve stated on this matter here and here. My position has been and still is that Rick Warren has been significantly influenced by Robert Schuller’s methods of Church Growth. Which leads us to a very critical question...
WHO DID I ORIGINALLY HEAR THIS FROM?
Was it Robert Schuller? No, It wasn’t Robert Schuller. I’ve never seen the Larry King interview that Warren referenced. But as you will see, Robert Schuller has something to say on this matter.
Was it George Mair? I’ve never even seen one of Mair’s books.
So who was it that told me that Rick Warren was heavily influenced by Robert Schuller?
That person was Rick Warren’s wife KAY WARREN! Here is what KAY WARREN told Christianity Today back in November of 2002:
During his last year in seminary, he and Kay drove west to visit Robert Schuller's Institute for Church Growth. "We had a very stony ride out to the conference," she says, because such nontraditional ministry scared her to death. Schuller, though, won them over. "He had a profound influence on Rick," Kay says. "We were captivated by his positive appeal to nonbelievers. I never looked back." (Online Source)
It is very clear from Kay’s account that attending Robert Schuller’s Institute was a life changing event for Rick Warren. In fact, Shuller’s ideas and methods had such a deep impact on Rick Warren's thinking that he adopted them, imitated them and made them his own. We read two paragraphs later:
Imitating Schuller, Warren walked the (then unincorporated but fast-growing) town of Lake Forest, asking what kept people from going to church. (Online Source).
So far we've learned that according to Rick Warren’s wife (she is definitely a member of his family and a first-hand eye-witness to the events reported) in an interview with Christianity Today (hardly a smear and gossip magazine):
1. Rick Warren and his wife attended Robert Schuller’s Institute for Church Growth.
2. Robert Sculler won them over.
3. Rick and Kay were ‘captivated by Schuller's ‘positive appeal to nonbelievers’. (Kay Warren's words, not mine)
4. Robert Schuller had a PROFOUND INFLUENCE on Rick. (Kay Warren's words, not mine)
5. When Warren started Saddleback Church he “imitated Robert Schuller”
But wait there’s more. Robert Schuller himself has written about his influence on Rick Warren. Said Schuller:
“What has been accomplished already through this church is phenomenal because of the dedicated members and friends we have. I see the results today of the Institute for Successful Church Leadership which we dared to launch 35 years ago and it is still going strong. Here ministers are inspired to believe in their dreams and to present the good news of the gospel in positive terms. And some of those students are well-known.
...there’s Rick Warren, a pastor who today is phenomenal. He came to our institute time after time. And in "Christianity Today," his wife was quoted as saying, "When we came to that institute, we were blown away." How God has blessed him. And today Rick Warren is blessing millions of people. (Online Source)
But wait there's even more! Schuller's own website claims that Rick Warren was "MENTORED" at Schuller's Church Growth Institute. Said Schuller's website:
"We are the home of the world's first Church Growth Institute, -launching the mega-church movement in the 20th century. Tens of thousands of pastors, including famous graduates Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Bishop Blake, Walt Kallestad, and Sundo Kim of Korea, were mentored here." (Online Source)
Schuller himself not only corroborates Kay Warren's story in Christianity Today, he claims that Rick Warren came to his institute “time after time” and that Warren was MENTORED there.
In his interview with WND Rick Warren is only ‘technically’ correct in saying that he wasn’t mentored by Robert Schuller. This is due to the fact that Schuller didn't PERSONALLY do the mentoring. But that doesn’t even remotely let Warren off the hook. In fact, this is a straw man because the real issue is not wether Warren was PERSONALLY mentored by Schuller, but whether Warren's philosophy of ministry was HEAVILY influenced by Robert Schuller. It is immaterial whether or not the training occured one on one in a personal mentoring relationship. What matters is the undeniable fact that Rick Warren was MENTORED at Schuller's Church Growth Institute which is where Warren learned and adopted Robert Schuller's church growth methods and practices.
Fact is, Rick Warren fabricated the story that he told WND. The purpose of his story was to discredit the bloggers who are criticizing him because of his clear connection to Robert Schuller.
Here's the bottom line, using ONLY Kay Warren's and Robert Schuller's testimony one could describe Rick’s relationship with Schuller in this way:
While Rick Warren was in seminary he and his wife traveled by car across the country to attend Robert Schuller’s Institute for Church Growth. Warren was won over by Schuller and captivated by Schuller’s positive approach to the gospel. Shuller had a profound influence upon Rick Warren. As a result, Warren was mentored at Schuller’s Church Growth Institute. He visited the institute "time after time" and even imitated Schuller when he launched Saddleback Church.
(AND implied in both Kay's and Schuller's testimony is their belief that Rick Warren still continues to employ the methods and practices he learned from Robert Schuller's Church Growth Institute.)
Rather than admit Schuller’s “Profound Influence” (Kay Warren's words, not mine) upon his ministry through the "mentoring" he received from Robert Shuller's Church Growth Institute (Schuller's words, not mine), Warren is now attempting to distance himself from Robert Schuller and he’s playing the 'victim card' and blaming those mean ol’ bloggers in the process.
But here is the simple fact, Rick Warren has once again been caught bending the truth and it was a blogger who caught him.